global warming hearing

[Arius]

No one is saying that we are going to control the weather...we are doing so in order to control the BEHAVIOR of those who pollute our planet. You know, like speeders, jaywalkers, those who use cell phones while driving and so on?

And if consumers start to pay, they will exert pressure on those polluters to develop processes that don't pollute, but it makes those polluters accountable for the first time in many cases. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

And when the "smartest, nicest and absolutely bestest country" in the world cannot do business without destroying it, THERE IS A PROBLEM.

[Arius]

Originally Posted by Pineygirl

First of all, the conservatives have not been in power for ages, so please give up that tired argument.

Second, isn't Obama The Great the One who is pushing for cap 'n' trade and the associated skyrocketing taxes?

So I doubt we're "following" anyone. We're just setting up a system where those who want to earn money (nothing wrong with that, even you work, I assume) will go to places where they can actually earn money. It won't be here, trust me.

Conservatives haven't been in power for 2 years Piney. Prior to that, they ruled for 12. And they did nothing but act like liberals, that is when they decided to do anything at all except stuff their personal religious beliefs down our throats.

Otherwise, conservatives in power meant great things for the elite class, but little else to a society in dire need of leadership. Sad, that this the people we have become.

[blockerhead]

Originally Posted by Arius

No one is saying that we are going to control the weather...we are doing so in order to control the BEHAVIOR of those who pollute our planet. You know, like speeders, jaywalkers, those who use cell phones while driving and so on?

And if consumers start to pay, they will exert pressure on those polluters to develop processes that don't pollute, but it makes those polluters accountable for the first time in many cases. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

And when the "smartest, nicest and absolutely bestest country" in the world cannot do business without destroying it, THERE IS A PROBLEM.

Really? No one? You sure?
Have you heard one of Gore's or Richard Strong's speeches?

[Pineygirl]

Originally Posted by Arius

Conservatives haven't been in power for 2 years Piney. Prior to that, they ruled for 12. And they did nothing but act like liberals,

Which is why conservatives have not been in power for ages.

that is when they decided to do anything at all except stuff their personal religious beliefs down our throats.

Oh? And just how did they do that, hmmmmmmm?

How did they "stuff their personal religious beliefs down our throats?

By forcing prayer in schools, perhaps?

By making abortions illegal, maybe?

By getting the Supreme Court to allow nativity scenes on government property?

By forcing schools to teach intelligent design along with evolution?

By passing laws requiring the Ten Commandments to be in courtrooms?

By making gay marriage legal?

Is that how conservatives "stuffed their personal religious beliefs down our throats"?

[blockerhead]

It was the Democrats this time preventing information at these hearings.

Not a good way to make policy huh? Put people on the ban list because of the information they might share with the American people?

[Arius]

Originally Posted by blockerhead

Really? No one? You sure?
Have you heard one of Gore's or Richard Strong's speeches?

I have...but I am not talking about the real product of Obama's policy. Regardless of the outward discussion (which is diversionary in my mind), the truth is we need to get a handle on American product of pollution and promote a worldwide understanding of the environmental impact of our behavior. We are the only creatures on earth that seek to destroy it purely out of greed...a poor example of creation if ever there was one.

Want to realize Original Sin? You need look no further than the mirror in the greed, selfishness and self hatred of humanity.

[Arius]

Originally Posted by Pineygirl

Which is why conservatives have not been in power for ages.

We must simply define "ages" differently. We are still suffering from Republican "leadership" which means (to me) that we haven't seen them gone long enough.

Originally Posted by Pineygirl

Oh? And just how did they do that, hmmmmmmm?

How did they "stuff their personal religious beliefs down our throats?

By forcing prayer in schools, perhaps?

By making abortions illegal, maybe?

By getting the Supreme Court to allow nativity scenes on government property?

By forcing schools to teach intelligent design along with evolution?

By passing laws requiring the Ten Commandments to be in courtrooms?

By making gay marriage legal?

Is that how conservatives "stuffed their personal religious beliefs down our throats"?

Yes...and the backlash proved that there is hope for the human cause after all. And when the GOP platform becomes a pile of toothpicks on a dirt floor, they may see a resurgence.

Either that or they need to listen to the only Republican who seems to make sense anymore: Meghan McCain.

[oldhardhead]

So, is the global warming scam political?

Mr. Obama, as a presidential candidate, said his election would be remembered as "the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal." But in recent weeks, some members of his party have balked at the leading proposal in Congress to curb greenhouse-gas emissions. Friday, the longest-serving member of the House of Representatives, Rep. John Dingell (D., Mich.), called the proposal "a tax, and...a great big one."

"A tax, and...a great big one!"

Obama Aims for a Global Consensus - WSJ.com

Just this week 10 Northeastern states conducted the first cap-and-trade auction for greenhouse gasses in the United States. While the compliant press portrayed the event as an unmitigated victory for the pro-carbon capping movement, the important thing to remember is that while the 10 states involved (Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Maryland New York, New Jersey, Delaware and New Hampshire) did raise $40 million in revenue, not a single ounce of carbon has been reduced yet.

Way to go! Does he really think they need to do MORE to kill the economy? Corzine. Resign in 09!

Not only is the EU cap and trade program completely collapsing due to the harm it inflicts on the economy, the EU is also looking to expand oil and gas drilling. And in the exact same places that polar bears live too.

Because cap-and-trade failed, we are going to emulate it? Revenue enhancement, TAXES!!!

EU Cap and Trade in Complete Collapse The Foundry

As U.S. lawmakers work on the details of their greenhouse-gas legislation, they are looking carefully at Europe's experience. Five Senate proposals all use the same basic approach, known as "cap and trade," that Europe has used for the past two years. But what the snappy name "cap and trade" means is that the market will put a price on something that's always been free: the right of a factory to emit carbon gases. That could affect the cost of everything from windowpanes to airline tickets to electricity.

Because cap-and-trade failed, we are going to emulate it? Revenue enhancement, TAXES!!!

But Europe's program has driven electricity prices so high that the facility routinely shuts down for part of the day to save money on power. Although demand for its products is strong, the plant has laid off 40 of its 130 employees and trimmed production. Two customers have turned to cheaper imports from China, which is not covered by Europe's costly regulations. [...]

A few hundred miles away, in northern France, Pruvost took to the streets with 400 other cement workers from the region last December to protest a license for a rival company that plans to take advantage of Europe's system for controlling greenhouse gases by circumventing it. The rival wants to import material from Morocco, where factories don't have to pay to emit carbon gas.

Because cap-and-trade failed, we are going to emulate it? Revenue enhancement, TAXES!!!

Europe's Problems Color U.S. Plans to Curb Carbon Gases - washingtonpost.com

Next Bernie Madoff? Emissions Cap-and-Trade Aids the Corrupt, Hurts the Little Guy

The American people have had enough of convoluted, indecipherable financial schemes and the opportunists who exploit them. The public is understandably angry about Wall Street's exploitation of Main Street, and yet our political leaders are setting the stage for another complex trading market, ripe for corruption. The future Enrons and Bernie Madoffs of the world would like nothing better than to see the U.S. impose a new market for carbon emission trading.

Next Bernie Madoff? Emissions Cap-and-Trade Aids the Corrupt, Hurts the Little Guy - US News and World Report

So the overall effect is...

EU Emissions Outpace U.S.

Contrary to claims by many global warming activists, the EU's command-and-control scheme has resulted in faster-rising CO2 emissions than in the United States, which has largely encouraged free markets and innovation.

Greenhouse gas emissions per unit of gross domestic product fell by 7.5 percent in the United States from 2000 to 2004, the most recent period for which reliable data have been assembled. The European Union reduced its greenhouse gas intensity by only 4.5 percent in the same time period.

Overall U.S. greenhouse gas emissions grew by only 1.3 percent between 2000 and 2004, while EU emissions grew by 2.1 percent.

The number of EU nations failing to meet their Kyoto targets further demonstrated the problems of imposing carbon reduction mandates from the top down. According to EU statistics, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovenia, and Spain are failing to meet their Kyoto targets.

Three of the EU nations are exceeding their Kyoto targets by more than 20 percent. Three others are exceeding by more than 10 percent.


All Cost, No Benefit

Boxer Pushes Failed EU Cap-and-Trade Scheme - by Bonner R. Cohen - Environment & Climate News

[oldhardhead]

Originally Posted by Arius

No one is saying that we are going to control the weather...

No? Ever hear of "global warming?"

[oldhardhead]

Originally Posted by Arius

Conservatives haven't been in power for 2 years Piney. Prior to that, they ruled for 12.

What country are you talking about