Funny stuff ? OR accurate truth?

[Arius]

If this is your basis, then there are very little few facts that can be "mutually exclusive". I can accept that in your version, and in that we see why we humans can never get alone...we are too busy defending facts that are not mutually exclusive. In this fact, it is clear that neither are wrong and neither are right, and the attempt to convince others of such rightness is simply insane.

With this in mind, why on earth would you defend a "fact" that is not mutually exclusive? Why can't you just let everyone have their perspective?

[Pineygirl]

Originally Posted by Arius

If this is your basis, then there are very little few facts that can be "mutually exclusive". I can accept that in your version, and in that we see why we humans can never get alone...we are too busy defending facts that are not mutually exclusive. In this fact, it is clear that neither are wrong and neither are right, and the attempt to convince others of such rightness is simply insane.

With this in mind, why on earth would you defend a "fact" that is not mutually exclusive? Why can't you just let everyone have their perspective?

Because perspective is different from fact.

Two people can witness person A shooting person B.

The shooting is a fact.

One witness can say that person B asked for it.
The other witness can say the shooting was unprovoked.
Perspective.
Upon a fact.

[Arius]

Then tell me something Piney. Look up at the clear, daytime sky.

What color is it???? Is what you see factual or not?

Then, call someone on the other side of the planet who is having a clear night. Ask them to look at the earth's sky and tell you what color it is. They will say "it's clear", or "it's black".

So, if I have both of you on the phone and ask "what color is the sky?", you will say blue, and they will say clear. You will argue how they are wrong, that you see it as blue, and they will tell you that you are wrong because they see it a clear. It's the same sky (there is only one that circles the globe).

Both are descriptions of the sky from uniquely individual perspectives at a given moment. Both are factual. In order to reach a mutual understanding, you will have to both experience the sky at different times, from different perspectives, and that itself will change your version of fact. Once you have this "outside your box" experience, you will begin to see things from a much broader perspective, and there is one less thing to argue about. The sky we see is an illusion of the mind, because the present mind would say simple "It is what it is".

The point I was trying to make is that facts as well as opinions can be influenced by perspective. How? We all see facts through the clouds of our minds...and no, not all facts are born of perspective...but they can be certainly influenced by it.

And if this is true than the following cannot be:

Originally Posted by oldhardhead View Post
Facts are not changed by "today's world." They exist, independent of your imagination.

Facts are immutable. They are independent of points of view, individual perspective, opinions, lies, truths, knowledge and news reports.

The problem we have with biased news reports is this: instead of reporting the news facts, bias distorts the news when there is a decision on what to report or not report and filling the reports with opinions. For example, we have a problem when propaganda supporting a candidate for office is sold as "news."

If you do not understand the difference between a fact and a belief or the difference between a fact and an opinion, then that certainly explains a lot!

I mention this because we all tend to hold onto our perspectives as fact, and defend those perspectives venomously. If we would all understand that such things can be altered, in fact if we expect them to be, we would certainly be less judgmental and more peaceful in our existence. We need not challenge each other on perspectives nor label others by them, because all things are subject to change.

When we are rotting away in the ground, I hardly believe any of us will care about taxes, politics, religion and other meaningless distractions of the mind. I can't see why we waste life worrying about them before becoming worm food.

[Pineygirl]

The sky is a fact.
The blue sky on a clear day is a fact.
The dark night sky is a fact.
The existence of the sky is a fact.
One's perspective on it, depending upon the time of day, is perspective.

You know, I used to play these mind games back in the day with a group of friends over a bottle of Boone's Farm. "What is 'is'?" "Is truth truth?"

Eventually, we all grew up. At some point you have to realize that some questions can go on forever with no answers. After a while, that gets boring. You mature and accept that certain things are, in fact, true, real, and the way life is. Then you finally learn to enjoy the gift of life that has been given to you and stop trying to fathom the unfathomable. It's called "acceptance." Saves a lot of trouble and results in a more satisfying way of life.

Nobody's fathomed the unfathomable yet, and it's highly unlikely that anyone will in the near future. Much better to worry about the things that are causing your best friend to be sad, or causing gas prices to rise.

[oldhardhead]

Arius, what I'm trying to explain, perhaps unsuccessfully is:

A fact is reality and is what IS.

Whatever us mere mortals might accept, assume, concede, conceive, conclude, conjecture, consider, count on, deduce, expect, fancy, feel, gather, guess, hear, imagine, infer, learn, presume, reckon, suppose, surmise, suspect, take for granted, fathom, etc. doesn't matter.

Sometimes we get it right.

Politics, religion, race, creed, whatever HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

It's what is.

[SheriB]

The sky is a fact.
The blue sky on a clear day is a fact.
The dark night sky is a fact.
The existence of the sky is a fact.

I'm not really sure you can just say "*noun* is fact." That seems kind of awkward. How can an object by itself be a fact? Why can't it be fiction? Usually facts have more than one component, such as "the sky is high" or "the rainbow is out."

These "mind games" are hardly immature or boring. In analyzing how we think about thought, we can see what influences us and why we are the way that we are. It is pretty obvious that you have accepted things as they are presented to you because you no longer see your own bias. You can't deconstruct the elements that have contributed to your thought process, you only instinctively act. "Know thyself" should hang above your kitchen door.

It's called "acceptance."

I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am.

[Arius]

Originally Posted by oldhardhead

Arius, what I'm trying to explain, perhaps unsuccessfully is:

A fact is reality and is what IS.

Whatever us mere mortals might accept, assume, concede, conceive, conclude, conjecture, consider, count on, deduce, expect, fancy, feel, gather, guess, hear, imagine, infer, learn, presume, reckon, suppose, surmise, suspect, take for granted, fathom, etc. doesn't matter.

Sometimes we get it right.

Politics, religion, race, creed, whatever HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

It's what is.

Reality is not what "is", it is what we perceive. Period. In fact, the only reality is love. All else is pure creation of the mind.

For instance I agree with your explanation on what doesn't matter. Once you deduce that it "doesn't matter", it becomes ridiculous to attach any importance to those thinks you list (including what comes after the "etc."). In that we need never "get it right" in accordance with those things.

Politics, religion, race, creed, whatever are figments of the mind, and therefore don't matter one bit in ay way whatsoever. Therefore, any importance we place on those things shows our smallness and stupidity. And while that may be "what it is", it certainly possible through awareness of such things we can make them "what they were" and change the reality of our presence.

This can only be done through awareness...

[Arius]

Originally Posted by Pineygirl

The sky is a fact.
The blue sky on a clear day is a fact.
The dark night sky is a fact.
The existence of the sky is a fact.
One's perspective on it, depending upon the time of day, is perspective.

The sky is a fact? Can you define what the sky is? The blue sky is not fact on a clear day, not at all...it is perception. The dark night sky is not fact, the vastness of the universe beyond it is what you see. The sky is not dark...

The existence of the sky is fact? To what do you use as proof of its existence?

You know, I used to play these mind games back in the day with a group of friends over a bottle of Boone's Farm. "What is 'is'?" "Is truth truth?"

And apparently you didn't learn anything. You replaced an alcohol induced stupidity with another version of it, but you never did learn the answers to those questions. You can only learn the answers when they cease to be "mind" anything. It is apparently you are so attached to the fake noise in your head that you wouldn't know what to do without it.

Eventually, we all grew up. At some point you have to realize that some questions can go on forever with no answers. After a while, that gets boring. You mature and accept that certain things are, in fact, true, real, and the way life is. Then you finally learn to enjoy the gift of life that has been given to you and stop trying to fathom the unfathomable. It's called "acceptance." Saves a lot of trouble and results in a more satisfying way of life.

You have not grown up, you have grown old. Your mind is infantile, like a toddler still in need of a binkie and bottle you need your mind to feel secure and comfortable. That's why the questions are boring, they are your mind trying to convince itself of its own importance. In this constant and rather boring exercise of the mind, you CEASE to enjoy the gift of life you have been given. You CEASE to see the miracles that happen around you (except in the way the mind tells you they are there).

You also seem to think that this is all unfathomable. Well, that is your mind at work again. Many have fathomed it, and the explanations are clear once you put your mind in its place. When your thoughts and mind become insignificant, you begin to fathom it all. Then life truly becomes "satisfying". Face it, if your life was so "satisfying", you wouldn't waste it on the meaningless bullshit you waste it on.

Nobody's fathomed the unfathomable yet, and it's highly unlikely that anyone will in the near future. Much better to worry about the things that are causing your best friend to be sad, or causing gas prices to rise.

LMAO!!! You are funny. The same thing that makes you believe all the bullshit you just said are the same things making your friend sad. The same things that cause you to believe you are needed in the political realm is the same thing that makes gas prices rise.

Until you can forgive, you are unworthy of forgiveness. Until you can be tolerant, you are unworthy of tolerance. The only things that matter in this existence are born of love...all other things are dreams of the mind and IRRELEVANT. It isn't that hard to fathom (but even now your mind is attaching "but" and "if" and conditions to that which is understood by many but perceived by few.